Thank you for sharing this. Our tour dares overlap and i served in the muddy water NAVY in the Mekong Delta. A minute or two after takeoff we had cold air blasting through the cockpits. Theyd blow up on the runway. !Cheers my friend. At the very least, he had just been knocked out. I reached bingo, bingo minus 5, minus 10, minus 15, and reported to lead each time. Your reaction to my article bears the stamps of liberalist tradition unhampered by progress, reveals a lack of understanding of politics on the world stage and shows complete disrespect for the sacrifices made by all Vietnam combat veterans. Just then, the crew chief, SSgt. If your anti-Vietnam War feelings are still that strong, I dare you to walk up to a highly-decorated Vietnam combat veteran, preferably a Marine or Soldier and vent your anti-war feelings to him, face-to-face! Thanks for the story, Joe. It was less than a minute before I would be on the ground. Many thanks for contributing this excellent memoirhope to read more of your writings in future, and wishing you many more years of life aloft: youve sure earned them! Just recently back from the Academy F-4 Phantom ceremony. Cant really say I enjoyed reading your piece, although I could not stop reading. I could see small hooches (straw huts) on the ground. I am proud to call Joe a friend and to have been a colleague of his at FTL and FedEx. Section leader had one Dud flash by just as we started to Split S from Control Warning. We were together at MacDill in the F-4 but rotated at different times into SEA. God Bless all who serve. Phew III! Steve Snyder's masterful book, Shot Down, does justice to the adventures of his father, pilot Howard Snyder, and the crew of the B-17 plane Susan Ruth. We were going to make it. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling that thinks nothing is worth war is much worse. Dulles had his chance to prevent the un-needed War. Phew! Flights were around four hours. By 0900, my front-seater, 1stLt. Gordon Scotty Wilson and I were walking onto the north ramp to our weapons- and fuel-laden F-4C number 64-0755. Scotty had ejected. The pilot Lieutenant J. M. Krommenhoek is Missing in Action. A-1E (S/N 52-132649) was flown by Maj. Bernard Fisher on March 10, 1966, when he rescued a fellow pilot shot down over South Vietnam. It must have occurred just before my own chute opened. The SA-2 brought down many American pilots over North Vietnam. Flight lead replied, Dogwood 2, you have the lead. So that it is crystal clear to the reader, this means that two 1stLieutenants were leading a flight of Phantoms to a JCS target on the outskirts of Hanoi referred to as Bullseye by those of us who flew over the north. 17 apr 1966: arab 511, an a-1h (buno 135398), lt (jg) william l. tromp, va-115, went down following a night attack on coastal targets, near approximately 1818'n, 10610'e. arab 506, his wingman,. Thanks for your service Joe, you are one of the countrys heros. 28 NOV 67. There were pictures in the Tulsa World of the damage one of the ejection seats did to a womans newly-remodeled bathroom. Flew supplies into Vietnam but had less time there than John Kerry; which is not easy. First loss: EC-121R 67-24193 (554th Reconnaissance Squadron, 553d RW) crashed 25 April 1969 on take-off in a thunderstorm from. Pilots lost control in low clouds during a night flare mission. He is someone that I have always respected and admired. Dickens rescued) Joe, you are one incredible patriot and hero. And all of us should remember them every day because we are we enjoy the freedoms their sacrifice every, single day. Was he making a record that his stupid wingman was messing up the mission? The terror I felt just moments before vanished. When Maj. "Jump" Myers' plane crashed in flames, there was no chance of rescue - yet Bernie Fisher defied the odds and brought him out alive. Dickens rescued) Final loss: 70-0945 (354th TFW) shot down in Cambodia on 25 May 1973 (Capt Jeremiah Costello KIA) First loss: B-26B 44-35530 (Detachment 2A, 1st ACG) shot down in IV CTZ on the night of 4-5 November 1962, killing the 3 crew I was a F4 mechanic here at DMAFB in Tucson. Wed had it. The eight-engine bomber was brought down by a North Vietnamese surface-to-air missile near Vinh on the day when B-52s flew their heaviest raids of the war over North Vietnam. . SSGT Bobby Sacina, JoeThank you fot sharing your experience..We have had a few talks over beers in the past but you never told this storyYou are an American hero!! We can only hope that the current and subsequent generations will take J.S. The concept that Vietnamese people who had conquered most of SE Asia and fought off numerous invasions by Chinese dynasties for centuries would be cowed and exhausted by the haphazard application of US air power was the result of historical ignorance and superpower arrogance. On Sept. 12, 1968, F-100D pilot Capt. Well b fearn, you have a right to make your comment and your opinion, but I do not believe this is the time or place. records. I hope that this article and your word of mouth/teachings help other people stand up against stupidity and question the orders of those place in authority. [10] Estimates of North Vietnamese losses range from 131, as documented in North Vietnamese records; to 195, as claimed by U.S. But there was no SAM. The story of an immortal pilot who fought on biplanes against the Japanese in the 1930s in China, but also shot down American jets not only in the Korean but also in the Vietnam War. By that point the airflow over the isoclinic horizontal stabilizer was sufficient to start the nose up. The last known photo of F-4C 64-0755, the Phantom flown in this article. Dak Harney Peak who did far less than Dulles. I was O.K. I yelled on the intercom, Deep six check! Soviet General Fesenko, the main Soviet adviser to the North Vietnamese Air Force in 1972, recorded 34 MiG-21s destroyed in 1972. Joes epilogue sums it all up. Site content may be used for any purpose without explicit permission unless otherwise specified. The control stick was lazily wandering left and right; the throttles were all the way forward in the full afterburner position but there was no thrust coming from the J-79s. . me 500s. Energy Management Clich or Exactitude? I will tell the story of Scotty and you and will encourage my son to never forget! My father was a Marine. Before I could muse over any more unhappy endings, I was dropped onto the floor. Ha! First loss: 560937 (476th TFS, 497th TFW) shot down by enemy ground fire during CAS mission near Tri Dao, Vietnam, on 29 June 1965, pilot Capt. I was too busy inside the cockpit to see it happen but the other two Phantoms banked away sharply to assume the proper lateral spacing. One source reported that the North Vietnamese claimed to have shot down 218 U.S. manned aircraft in air to air combat in Vietnam, of those kills, 85 are not supported by U.S. records, while another 37 were attributed by the U.S. to surface-to-air missiles and anti-aircraft fire. Thank you for your sentiments. Muhammad Mahmood Alam was a Pakistani Air Force jet fighter pilot in the Indo-Pakistani War of 1965. There were no J-79s! I knew none of this before he died. If it means anything, I wanted to tell you that I have travelled extensively though Vietnam for both work and pleasure, and found that Vietnamese people hold no grudge whatsoever to those dark years, younger generations are full of optimism and only look forward for a better life. Well written as you brought each of us along with you in the cockpit as your descriptives of that entire mission were intense. I hope to be delighted with more of your anecdotes. Others had knives and were, to my complete surprise, cutting the clothing and equipment from my body. Hes my hero. When I was shot down I weighed 157 lbs. And after Scotty started the engines, the aerial refueling receptacle would only operate some of the time. Your story sheds much light on what his experiences must have been like. Spent the day with Tom and Scottys brother Mark. At least 68 people were killed Sunday when an aircraft went down near the city of Pokhara in central Nepal, a government official said, the country's deadliest plane crash in more than 30 years. He did what he had to do, did what he was asked to do by his country. In closing, I assert that Joe did not have the option you recommend. If I could ever slow down I might have time to write that book. A C-47 was the very first USAF aircraft lost in the SEA conflict, C-47B 44-76330 (315th Air Division) on TDY at Vientiane, Laos which was shot down by the Pathet Lao on 23 March 1961 killing 7 of the 8 crewmen. There were a total a 269 American and enemy aircraft shot down in air-to-air combat over Vietnam during the entire war201 in fights between the U.S. Air Force and North Vietnamese air force and just 68 in the U.S. Navy's air battles with the North Vietnamese. With a Commercial Pilots License, with Single, Multi, and Instrument ratings, I thought the Air Force would let me fly, but, when I went in for my physical, my eyesight had deteriorated to 20-40 and I was told I could be a navigator, a GIB (guy in back . The black, shapeless mass of Vietnamese peasants was all over me. 64 to 69. of high-explosive surrounded by a thousand 1-inch diameter stainless steel balls inside the 6-foot long nose cone. Day after day intel would ask us to listen up for Buick 4, or Chevy 4, or whoever Number 4 who had been shot down while lead worked on getting his Mig. Final loss: A84-228 shot down by two SA-2 SAM missiles on 14 March 1971; Wing Commander F. J. L. Downing and Flight Lieutenant A.J. P.39, Toperczer, Istvan. Among fixed-wing aircraft, more F-4 Phantoms were lost than any other type in service with any nation. I cannot express my admiration for you and others who went thru what you did. Joe ( and Gus), Im honored to have met and flown with both of you with FEDEX. Joe, Every Friday Im privileged to have lunch with a WWII veteran who flew virtually every airplane in the arsenal of the time. During the Vietnam War, thousands of U.S. aircraft were lost to antiaircraft artillery (AAA), surface-to-air missiles (SAMs), and fighter interceptors ( MiG )s. The great majority of U.S. combat losses in all areas of Southeast Asia were to AAA. I was always in awe of you guys flying the Phantom in the opressive heat and conditions of S.E. Thank you, David. My gratitude to those of you who gave so much. I was an Air Traffic Controller at the Tulsa TRACON (tower and radar approach control) in January of 1981 when one of the check flights did not end well. The soil was mercifully soft, loose and moist. Not sure which squadron he started with but he ended up assigned to the 366-tfw. [23] 2 Mi-4, 5 An-2, 5 Il-14, 1 MiG-15UTI, 1 Il-28, 1 L-29, 1 Lisunov Li-2 lost through all causes[24] Total: 159 aircraft and 2 helicopter lost. Russian source: 65 MiG-21s, 5 MiG-19s, 75 MiG-17s lost through all causes. Smoke would be pouring out of their engines. But I dont think they fixed it right. Thanks for your service and sacrifice! Elizabeth Hartsook, Stuart Slade. Our airplane flew out of the fireball with orange flames and thick, black smoke trailing from the wings, fuselage and tail. So that the pilot does not have to be utilizing his attitude indicator for this, the canopy rails happen to be canted downward at just the correct angle making it possible to perform the takeoff maneuver using purely visual references, e.g. You also draw a conclusion that isnt at all clear-cut, which is why no one else has commented on it. In the solitude of my tiny enclosure, staring unfocused at the floor, I said aloud, Todays the day, thinking this was the last day of my life. Thank you Sir for your service. Charge of the Light Brigade. Jan 12, 06:12 PM. Youre the best and always will be with me when I go flying. The process of lifting the American air pirate and dropping him (me) face first onto the floor went on for over an hour. But I did not. After all that I suffered dont you dare tell me I had no business being there! Joe could have saved lives and saved 6 years of his own if had just stayed home. He said hes sorry I feel that way. Pilots would be hollering for this and for thatand there was NOTHING I could do. Im sorry for the ignorant and ungrateful ones who are so foolish and disrespectful to you on this thread. Cliff, I am very sorry for the loss of your Dad. There will always be those who dont get it. Some were grabbing and pulling at my anti-g suit, flight suit and boots. So glad that you made it back in one piece, and were able to continue flying. J. W. Newhouse rescued, First loss: EF-105F 63-8286 (13th TFS, 388th TFW) shot down by AAA RP-6 July 1966, Maj. Roosevelt Hestle, Final loss: F-105G 63-8359 (Det.1 561st TFS, 388th TFW) shot down by SAM 16 November 1972, RP-3, crew rescued, First loss: mission-related TFR failure, 66-0022 (428th TFS 474th TFW, Project Combat Lancer), 28 March 1968, Maj. H.E. The United States loses its first B-52 of the war. Better than snakes or drowning in contaminated water, I thought briefly, before I was elevated again and dropped again. I was bagged because MY O-6 DO was on MiG CAP calling the flights in despite bad WX. Source's information probably relates to the incident.. That may be the biggest benefit from Viet Nam, a conflict which many would say yielded very few benefits, as you suggest. Despite these difficulties, we began to taxi. His remains were returned to the USA in April, 1986, and he is interred at the Air Force Academy Cemetery, Colorado Springs, Colorado. GBU my friend! I later learned that this controller had served many months in Saigon. Presently it dishonors over 50,000 dead and how many maimed and wounded? Scotty took one look at the patch which I admit looked a bit Sam Schwartz to me and replied, If we have to break for a SAM, well bring it back without the wingtip.. In Reply to B. Fearn by the author of Shot Down Over North Vietnam, War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. Republic F-105 Thunderchief. Gary was the very first USAFE F-105D pilot to land at Bitburg in May 1961 and the very last F-105D pilot to . His unit was flying in support of South Vietnamese troops fighting in Laos. Bent the F-4 around after re-start and headed to his radial fix off Hue Tacan. I reported I wasnt sure which (if any) was his. I flew Marine Corps F-4s out of Da Nang and Nam Pong, Thailand in 1972; unfortunately not much had changed in six years. Thank you Sir. Phew! Caribou A4-193 was destroyed by mortar fire while taxiing at That Son (near the Cambodian border) on 29 March 1970. While my eyes and my thoughts were on flying out of enemy territory, my hands moved swiftly to the lower ejection handle while my body automatically assumed the correct ejection posture; back straight, legs extended, elbows tucked in close to the body, and BOOM. Barney. A well? The clouds were reported to be at 10,000 ft. Ed McGaa, Marine F4s, Chu Lai Mostly CAS. I looked for an escape route. 31 DEC 71. The baro switch was supposed to open my chute at 10,000 ft. Thus ended my first day as a POW in North Vietnam. From the back seat, I accomplished the fuel on-load at an altitude of 25,000 ft. having to use minimum afterburner on the left engine to stay in position due to the heavy load. Great job! It was late November, the temperature was 40F, and all I had on were my underwear. The NVA never admitted to capturing them! Hope you sre enjoying the golden years. As the nose rises, pitch attitude must be controlled to achieve a nose-high attitude of 10 to 12 degrees. Those of us that were there were paying attention; I remember that it was not assured, back then, if anybody would be repatriated. ), Ways to get involved in the 2022 Election. So why were we going in anyway? I would like to hear from you at some point; [emailprotected]. Fortunately, my background as a briefer and operations duty officer enabled me to tell my accusers that the base they spoke of was still 250 miles from Chu Lai, and the runway was not suitable for F4s. A natural reaction. Im horrified to know how divided our country was in the late 60s/early 70s, and people like you did your duty, for all of us. I knew you had endured being a prisoner but we never talked about it. Despite our brief conversation enroute to the tanker about pilots who had ejected from their burning airplanes prematurely (their aircraft flew on for long distances before going out of control) what happened next got my attention. Joined up and reported a suspected Truck Park near Finger Lakes since we had avoided calling in to Ask Permission and wait the usual half hour to allow the Russian Radar trainers time to get out courtesy of our GD State Dept. The Douglas A-1E Skyraider (U.S. Navy BuNo 132649) at the National Museum of the United States Air Force (Dayton, Ohio, USA) is the airplane flown by Maj. Bernard Fisher on 10 March 1966, when he rescued a fellow pilot shot down over South Vietnam in the midst of enemy troops. And the plane that carried them, a commercial jet . It is awful that people make bad decisions for selfish reasons. Several of our birds went to Nam. In that instant, I realized how I would die; they were going to slice my head off. I still know where the CB is. [I was USAF SAC (enlisted) 62-66. A MiG-21 of the VPAF which became the primary fighter-interceptor against USAF and USN aircraft. A few of the men wore shoddy uniforms and were armed with old-looking, bolt-action rifles. We accomplished the weapons checklist just as we entered enemy territory: Centerline station, Bombs ripple, Intervalometer set, Master Arm. I fell into a restless, nightmarish and shivering cold sleep. I thank you for what you did for us all, and I know it cost you. Lonely feeling for a pilot over enemy territory. Burning American aircraft at Bien Hoa Air Base in 1965. I completely agree with everything Jim D. (below) writes. My head, no longer protected by my helmet, was now receiving direct hits from clubs, rocks, rifle butts and God-knows-what. I had breakfast with 1stLt. Galand Kramer at the Danang Officers Open Mess, the DOOM Club, so appropriately named for those of us flying into the teeth of North Vietnams AAA, missile and MiG air defenses. We were to be a flight of four F-4C Phantoms. 2013. French-Indo China had been an imperialist hot bed for years, not to mention part of the communist domino effect after WW 2 that everyone was paranoid about. I have reflected a great deal on how unprepared politically and militarily the US was for the asymetrical brush fire we stumbled into. But, instead of cutting through my throat, as Id imagined, the blade moved away, cutting the helmet strap. I am most grateful for the hero status conferred upon me by the predominance of commenters. I even remember glancing around the cockpit at the throttles and the control stick. My mom, as she promised my father she would, visited my fathers grave at the National Cemetery in Grand Prairie on Saturday, left an American Flag, which, regardless of whether or not the boy scouts or other volunteers do, as they sometimes do and sometimes dont, shes done for the previous 10 Memorial Days. In burner, diving out of 20, didnt take long to head toward So China Sea. The American aces flew as members of two-man crews on F-4 Phantoms, reflecting the emergence of air-to-air missiles as the primary weapons of aerial combat. But, knowing this might be my only chance to talk before the fun and games began anew, I concocted a mission scenario that I hoped would be accepted as truth. Joe. All told, the U.S. Air Force flew 5.25 million sorties over South Vietnam, North Vietnam, northern and southern Laos, and Cambodia, losing 2,251 aircraft: 1,737 to hostile action, and 514 in accidents. Final loss: C-130E 72-1297 (314th TAW) destroyed by rocket fire at Tan Son Nhut AB on 28 April 1975. 23 NOV 67. They fixed it. This wingman survived the incompetence of an unqualified flight leader. I was in the tower in Saigon and F-4s would come pouring in. This farmer pilot is Nguyn Vn By who died on Sept. 21, 2019 at the age of 83. He didnt understand that we were mixed in a huge gaggle competing for time on target, lugging 10 X 500# bombs, 400 miles from base, with marginal weather, fuel hungry, not in sight with each other? I found out what its like to be a zoo animal except nobody threw me any peanuts. To increase air support for the SEALORDS Operation in South Vietnam's Mekong Delta, the Navy "borrowed" twenty North American Aviation OV-10A Broncos from the United States Marine Corps. its from the How did you manage to climb aboard your jet and competently do your job in the face of what you already knew? Welcome home. Binh Duong Province. If you think I should not be called a hero, tell them, not me. Twenty-one aircraft carriers conducted 86 war cruises and operated 9,178 total days on the line in the Gulf of Tonkin. Even at max takeoff weight, Scotty had to be careful not to exceed the landing gear limit airspeed of 250 knots with both afterburners cooking. . 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